Town of Lisbon
Zoning Board of Adjustment Minutes
March 4, 2009
6:00 pm meeting opened.
Members present: Emory Younkins (EY), Barry Lucas (BL), Robert Clark (RC), Jim Ingerson (JI), Jerry Hite (Absent)
Administrative Assistant: Barbara Menchin
Town Counsel: Shawn Tanquay
Public: Mark Champagne (Applicant), Bruce Marshal (Attorney for Mark Champagne), Harry Nevin of (Rigeline (?) Media), Mr. & Mrs. John Kaspzak, Mr. & Mrs. Damus Champagne, Mr. Jim McGovern, several people who arrived late including Ms. Albanese
EY opened with calling the Lisbon Zoning Board of Adjustments to order. “Tonight we are dealing with one item on the agenda and that is the deliberations on the Special Exception issue for the Champagne gravel removal operation on the rehearing and the first thing I need is to ask if the members have read the minutes and if they have any questions.” BL made a motion to accept, JI 2nd, so voted all.
EY stated “at this time the Board is going to conduct it’s deliberations. This is not a public hearing, the purpose of our deliberations is to outline the reasons behind the decision that we come to this evening.” “This is a public hearing NOT public comment, thank you, want to make sure that this is right for the record.”
BC stated: “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that the 2007 application by Mark Champagne for a Special Exception concerning the proposed project for commercial removal of soil of any type located on Mount Eustis Road, Lots R32-26 and R49-001 is properly before the Board given the Grafton County Superior Court’s August 12, 2008 order.” JI 2nd.
EY stated it had been seconded and then asked the Board if there was any discussion on the motion. EY said “I believe that the case before us, the question had come up from Attorney Callen whether or not this was a rehearing and all the points he made we would simply say that this case was remanded to us by the court. It was not overturned by the court, it was remanded to us for full consideration of Mr. Champagne’s application and we also made sure that all abutters and municipalities had been notified as required by RSA Chapter 36.”
EY asked if there was any discussion on this point.
At the end of the discussion EY put the Motion submitted by BC and seconded by JI to a vote. All voted aye, none opposed. Motion Passed.
JI stated: “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that the Board’s decision to impose deadlines for submission of documents prior to the hearings on this matter was reasonable and lawful.” BC 2nd.
EY asked if he could have some discussion from the Board.
BC stated: “It seems that, I can understand the frustration over this but maybe if some of these people that were complaining were in our shoes, to go over a stack of paperwork that high while the meeting is in process would just be a little bit hard. I think that is one of the reasons why we put this in was so that we could go over this prior to the meeting. That’s the way I look at it, it’s just too much”
EY stated: “Right and that would be the reason why we asked for cut-offs for submission of any written material so that we could read that before the night of the hearing and not have stuff landed on us that we probably wouldn’t be able to get through that night.”
BL stated: “Anytime the board meets we usually have everything in front of us before a meeting.”
JI Stated: “Also I think we allowed to have verbal comments, public with no limitations on time limits which gave them ample opportunity for discussion at the time we had the rehearing.”
At the end of the discussion EY put the motion submitted by JI and seconded by BC to a vote before the Board. All voted aye, none opposed. Motion passed.
BL stated: “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that the Town of Sugar Hill has no objection to the applicant’s use of the municipal boundary line as the lot line for the applicant’s project within Lisbon as allowed by RSA 674:53.” JI 2nd.
BL stated “I also have a letter that we received from Sugar Hill on March 3 which states that the Sugar Hill Board of Adjustments acting as the town zoning officers from section 1703 of the Sugar Hill Zoning Ordinance returns the following reply to the Lisbon Zoning Board of Adjustment’s letter dated February 9. Which they advise that the Sugar Hill Ordinance under RSA 674:53 with a gravel pit located entirely on Mr. Champagne’s land in Lisbon. As long as the land in Sugar Hill remains the way it is they have no problem with it.”
EY stated “What I will do now is I will read the letter we received from the Town of Sugar Hill. And this would be only the second document that we have received from a Board of Selectmen, Zoning Board or Planning Board. The other one being the Bethlehem Planning Board. The letter from Sugar Hill Board of Selectmen says:
Dear Members of the Board, March 3 “The Sugar Hill Board of Selectmen, acting as the Town’s Zoning Officer pursuant to Section 170a3 of the Sugar Hill Zoning Ordinance, returns the following reply to the Lisbon Zoning Board of Adjustment’s letter dated February 9. Based on advise of legal counsel we find that there are no Sugar Hill ordinances or regulations which under RSA 674:53 would preclude a gravel pit located entirely on Mr. Mark Champagne’s land in Lisbon. Specifically, there is no existing or proposed use of Mr. Champagne’s land in Sugar Hill which is dependent upon land or improvements located in Lisbon in order to fulfill any Sugar Hill regulation, for purposes of either RSA 674:53, I or RSA 674:53 III (b).
Therefore, from the perspective of Sugar Hill’s ordinances and regulations, there is no impediment to Mr. Champagne’s either treating the town line as a lot line, or conversely, now or later treating his contiguous land in Lisbon and Sugar Hill as one single parcel of land. It is true that if Mr. Champagne wished to build upon or develop his lands in Sugar Hill, questions would be raised concerning frontage and access. However the existence of a gravel pit on his land in Lisbon would have no necessary impact upon the resolution of those questions if and when such development were to occur.
If we can be of further assistance, please don’t hesitate to contact our office.
Sincerely,
Harry L. Reid
Chairman
Board of Selectmen
EY asked if there were any comments on that and BC stated: “That pretty much says it right there.” EY stated “I think it does”.
At the end of this, EY asked for a vote on this issue. EY read the motion again: That the Lisbon Zoning Board find that the Town of Sugar Hill has no objection to the applicant’s use of the municipal boundary line as the lot line for the applicant’s project with Lisbon as allowed by RSA 674:53.” All voted aye, none opposed. Motion Passed.
EY stated: “Just so that everyone is aware, there were many points that were raised by Mr. Jed Callen and we have chosen to summarize them and feel that we have dealt so properly with some of them in our first three motions. We now are going to move to the five criteria that once again must be answered dealing with the finding for a Special Exception.
BC stated “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that in accordance with Article 8.03.01 that the specific site is an appropriate location for the use.” JI 2nd.
EY asked if there was any discussion.
BC stated: “It seems that whether this be industrial or residential, by doing this it seems to make both better off. In other words to try to build a house up there right now I think it would be hard, you are going to have to blast, put a foundation in or build the house on top of the ground. The same would be for industry, it is going to be a benefit to the land, in my estimation after it has been done.”
BL stated: “It is not only they are re-landscaping it but the access to the road. The road has to be in whether it is industrial, residential, whatever. It has to be at a specification where the fire trucks, that was the problem it was declined the last time was the access. The road was too steep, long……(EY interjected at this point and asked if he was referring to Dillon’s proposal, when he wanted to put houses up there). BL stated yes the biggest problem was the road.”
EY stated: An no matter who goes up there whether it is residential or industrial, someone is going to have to spend a lot of money putting in a road because as we know it is a pretty steep grade especially about half way up. I think that the way the plans have come to us from Mr. Champagne really indicates he’s very serious about this operation and that when some of this does get flattened out it certainly will be beneficial for whatever use that is. If it is industrial, fine, if somewhere down the road there’s a consideration of putting something else up there, you are still going to have to have some flattened land and you are still going to have to have a road.”
EY asked if there were any other comments or questions on that motion. EY read the motion again and called for a vote. All voted aye, none opposed. Motion passed.
JI stated: “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that in accordance with Article 8.03.02 that: Property values in the district will not be reduced by the use.” BC 2nd.
EY asked for discussion on the motion.
EY stated: “I think we have had concerns raised by individuals about whether or not the property values are going to go down. Evidence that was supplied to us, most of which had come from a particular real estate agent said that there were concerns but we didn’t have any direct evidence submitted that property values would go down and once again, it seems that the value continues to go up, I know we are in a slump right now but that land would be worth a lot more in the future than it is today and I tend to think that the area around it would be worth more.”
BC stated: “I agree on that, no matter what the land is whether it is going to be developed or it stay the way it is, the prices are not going to go down, they will go up and I think the surrounding people I can sympathize I guess to some extent but I know my own property when I bought where I live there was farm land, it is no longer farm land. It’s NE Electric Wire. I realize that may not be the same as a gravel pit but I probably have a dozen to 15 tractor-trailers go by my house every day except Saturday and Sunday. That’s not always the case because they come with propane in the middle of the night but I understand people’s fear maybe that might be the word to use, I don’t know but the closest person is Jim & Jean McGovern and they are like a quarter mile
away. I realize that there may be at certain times of the year whatever there may be a little adverse thing that’s possible but I have it 24 hours a day 5 days a week anyway, I don’t know if I can say you have to live with it whatever but anyway you look at it I don’t perceive that this is going to be something that is going to really affect the people’s property. It is too far away from anybody’s home or whatever.”
EY stated “I also would like to ad to that that once again and you will hear me say this again in the next couple motions that I think Mr. Champagne has done a very good job in planning his operation. It’s not like he is just going to the top of this hill and starting to blast just any which way. His plan as laid out to us are very specific as to trying to dig from the Littleton side so that not only will no one on the Lisbon end or the Sugar Hill end see the operation, there is also a good chance that they may not hear anything.” EY asked if there was any other discussion by the Board.
JI stated “Some of you know where I live. I have a gravel pit on both sides of my house, it’s two gravel pits. One of them is just a classified road that separates my property to the gravel pit which is 16 feet or something like that and the other one is probably 50 feet. Very seldom do I ever hear any of the operations from the gravel pits. The one that is currently being used mostly is probably 25 feet from my house. And as far as the trucks coming down and being a nuisance I have grandchildren, little ones. And between the Lisbon Police Department and the drivers and the owner of the gravel pit, have made sure that the trucks are going slow and watching out for those kids.”
EY asked if there were any other comments. As there were none, he read the motion and asked for a vote. All voted aye, none opposed. Motion Passed.
BL stated: “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that in accordance with Article 8.03.03 that: The use will not adversely affect the adjacent area and there are not reasonable objections by the owners of the abutting land.” JI 2nd.
EY asked for discussion.
BL stated: “I think there is two abutters that have voiced some objections. Mostly it is the McGovern’s. Jean has in our last meeting about her well being tested, I spoke with some engineers. Down in the lower part of the state in Windham where there wells were contaminated I wanted to find out what actually caused the contamination. Was it blasting or what it was and so I spoke with some engineers down in Concord. In a blast about 98% of the material is gone in the explosion, what happened in Windham is when they were dumping the materials in the holes, they spread a lot of nitrate in the ground and it was poor blasting techniques and they had have made improvements on blasting but that’s where most of the contamination comes from is when it is on the surface not when
it’s in the hole. The other thing with nitrates, they do dissipate. In one of our first meetings they said that once the well is contaminated, it’s contaminated, it’s not true. It does dissipate. Nitrates are also in fertilizer, life if you fertilize your lawn, your garden. Nitrates come from septic systems, which I didn’t know. So, for us to test the well it has to be tested before blast happens so you have a base line to see if anything appears, I didn’t know that. To test the well after the blast, doesn’t tell you what’s going on, you have to know before. Where the McGovern’s are on the other side of the hill away, about 1200 feet from boundary line another 600 feet from where the blasting is going to be, it’s almost a quarter mile away or over a quarter of a mile. They didn’t think that was going to be much of an issue.”
EY asked if there were any other comments.
JI stated: “I think that this is one of the hardest of all the articles that we have to decide on. What’s one person’s reasonable objection is not another person’s reasonable objection. Because we feel that in our own backyard, our own property, that we have a reasonable objection. It doesn’t mean that over the whole scope of the town, the area in general, that this is a reasonable objection. I think the person whose also asking for a Special Exception has to have some consideration too.”
EY said: “I think that also Mr. Champagne has included enough precautions in his plan that I think that we can see that although there are objections we believe that Mr. Champagne’s interests in doing his business on his property is also pretty heavily weighed in that decision.”
BL said: “I think Mr. Champagne wants to be a good neighbor also in his operation.”
EY said: “I think he has made that clear throughout the process.”
EY asked if there were any other comments. As there were none, he read the motion and asked for a vote. All voted aye, none opposed. Motion Passed.
BL stated: Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that in accordance with Article 8.03.04 that no nuisance or unreasonable hazard will result.” JI 2nd.
BC stated: “Mr. McGovern brought up some concerns about dump trucks and the weight limits. I think that if you go by the minutes of the last meeting I think some of the figures are misconstrued a little bit but if the plans that we have seen and what Mr. Champagne is going to do, yes, there will be truck traffic but there is already a tremendous amount of truck traffic there and I have a feeling whether Mark’s goes through or not, there is going to be more. The industrial park area of Littleton, Dodge Construction has moved in with all their trucks and they are not getting smaller trucks they are all getting bigger. All the tractortrailer business coming out of the industrial park, most of them come Lisbon way to Littleton as it is easier for them to come down to 302 and go North or
South. There may be some hazard there as far as some traffic but I don’t know as if it will be any more unreasonable necessarily than it is already. I don’t think it is going to make it. The traffic up there, one of the residents up there I know is concerned with it, always has been with it long before now and he lets it be known and rightfully so, they paved it. It is a little faster now but most of the local people who live there, drive there, they don’t want to throw a rock or nails in the road or everything else. I think it is not a big deal as far as that’s concerned.”
EY stated “I once again will go back to Mr. Champagnes plans, you know a lot of times when plans are submitted to a planning board, sometimes they are drawn on the back of an envelope, I am not kidding. I wish some people could some time see what we get submitted as plans. We have never seen plans that were ever as detailed or as well thought out as Mr. Champagne’s. I think that he has gone out of his way to make sure this is a safe operation. The nuisance factor in my opinion is going to be minimal. As far as unreasonable hazard, the other thing we need to remember, this is not going to be an every day operation. The whatever blasting that will occur in certain times and certain places and I think that the impact on that area is not going to be as great as what some people
fear.”
EY asked if there were any other comments. As there were none, he read the motion and asked for a vote. All voted aye, none opposed. Motion Passed.
JI said: “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that in accordance with Article 8.03.05 that adequate and appropriate facilities will be provided for the proper operation and maintenance of the proposed use.” BL 2nd.
BC stated: “I think, Emory, that what you have just said a second ago, the plans Mr. Champagne has indicates the thoroughness they have gone through to make sure that everything is done properly and in accordance with the rules and regulations, not just Lisbon, but the State of New Hampshire and probably United States. By looking with what he has on paper looks like there wouldn’t be any problem as far as the operation and the maintenance of the thing.”
EY asked if there was anyone else and then stated: “I think it is also important to realize that a lot of the problems that some people have with gravel pits are due to some of the pits that have been grandfathered and as we all know there’s maybe a lot of that would prefer that some of the pits are operating today that have been grandfathered don’t meet the codes and the specifications that Mr. Champagne’s is going to have to meet. And in that respect I feel as if he has to jump over a bar that is higher than any other gravel operation in this town. For that reason I think we are not going to have some of the problems that we have had with other gravel pits that have unfortunately are beyond the control of this Board. Anyone else?”
EY asked if there were any other comments. As there were none, he read the motion and asked for a vote. All voted aye, none opposed. Motion Passed.
BL stated: “Mr. Chairman I move that the Lisbon Zoning Board find that in accordance with articles 5.07.2 and 8.03 that the application by Mark Champagne for a Special Exception concerning the proposed project for commercial removal of soil of any type located on Mount Eustis Road, Lots R32-26 and R49-001 meets all the criteria for Special Exception under the Lisbon Zoning Ordinance and is hereby granted a Special Exception by the Lisbon Zoning Board concerning such project.” BC 2nd.
EY stated “This is our final vote. We have already voted in the affirmative on everything else here this evening. Does anyone here have any further comments before this vote?”
BL stated: “I’ve gone over all the paperwork and everything we have done and all the previous meetings and I think Mr. Champagne has with everything he has done that this is a good project.”
EY stated: “I would agree. We originally approved this about 1 ? years ago and I am as convinced as ever that this is something that is good and it is proper to award Mr. Champagne a Special Exception.”
Without any further comment then EY read: “The application by Mark Champagne for a Special Exception concerning the proposed project for commercial removal of soil of any type located on Mount Eustis Road, Lots R32-26 and R49-001 meets all the criteria for a Special Exception under the Lisbon Zoning Ordinance and is hereby granted a Special Exception by the Lisbon Zoning Board concerning such project.”
All in favor, none opposed. Motion passed.
EY stated “that concludes this hearing and our written decision will be issued in two weeks”. Motion to close…….by BC, BL 2nd all in favor to close the meeting, none opposed. EY stated meeting is closed at 6:45 pm.
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